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Icaros 2.0 is too buggy for my taste
Last updated on 9 years ago
amigamiaAdminQuote
cavemann wrote:
I've had some difficult hardware too. If there is a bios setting for 'plugNplay Os', make sure it is set to 'no'. Also if possible set the bios to Ide compatibility or legacy mode.
Remove any unneeded Usb items before booting. When the grub menu appears, try a Vesa boot, and edit your choice to read ata=nodma. You might also edit the ata.device, to /Devs/Alt/ata.device. And remove the ahci.device, if needed too.
If any of these edits get you booted. You can change grub to make them a part of your regular start-up.
I've managed to get recent Aros versions to boot on all my machines. But some I do not use because of constant Sfs drive errors. So not just frustrating for a new user.
Anyway, hope this helps.
Thanks Cavemann, I will keep these things in mind when I try this week end.
Edited by amigamia on 20-01-2015 16:02, 9 years ago
magoriumSoftware Dev
Posted 9 years agofwiw cavemann is spot on there.
I am aware things can be very frustrating, especially for newcomers (it is also for me for that matter), trying to figure out what workaround to use for particular hardware.
The 'problem' is that even when things move forward regarding aros, it also introduces more possible solutions. and that list seems to grow, so that as a newbie you can't just get away with simply try one or two of those solutions and hope for the best (my guess is that in the past many people got away with just pure luck on their side).
More possible solutions, means more possible combinations. Since i'm toying with emulated windows lately, i've been reminded of how this was also very true for win9x, and as a result also left users frustrated.
If you have the time and patience for it amigamia, then it is definitely worth the effort.
if things go wrong for me on a plain boot, then my approach is to turn everything off (BIOS, USB, NODMA, NOAHCI, etc.) and start with what many would call a crippled AROS. If that fails, then it is time to call in the experts :).
My main objective is always to be able to start the cd-rom/dvd and as such being able to install Aros/icaros (it never really failed me yet. Some issues regarding newer machines are present though). And from that i try to build up again, preferably with each and every individual option tested, to be able to tell what is the culprit for that specific machine.
In the hope it's useful
I am aware things can be very frustrating, especially for newcomers (it is also for me for that matter), trying to figure out what workaround to use for particular hardware.
The 'problem' is that even when things move forward regarding aros, it also introduces more possible solutions. and that list seems to grow, so that as a newbie you can't just get away with simply try one or two of those solutions and hope for the best (my guess is that in the past many people got away with just pure luck on their side).
More possible solutions, means more possible combinations. Since i'm toying with emulated windows lately, i've been reminded of how this was also very true for win9x, and as a result also left users frustrated.
If you have the time and patience for it amigamia, then it is definitely worth the effort.
if things go wrong for me on a plain boot, then my approach is to turn everything off (BIOS, USB, NODMA, NOAHCI, etc.) and start with what many would call a crippled AROS. If that fails, then it is time to call in the experts :).
My main objective is always to be able to start the cd-rom/dvd and as such being able to install Aros/icaros (it never really failed me yet. Some issues regarding newer machines are present though). And from that i try to build up again, preferably with each and every individual option tested, to be able to tell what is the culprit for that specific machine.
In the hope it's useful
cavemannSoftware Dev
Posted 9 years agoI've had some difficult hardware too. If there is a bios setting for 'plugNplay Os', make sure it is set to 'no'. Also if possible set the bios to Ide compatibility or legacy mode.
Remove any unneeded Usb items before booting. When the grub menu appears, try a Vesa boot, and edit your choice to read ata=nodma. You might also edit the ata.device, to /Devs/Alt/ata.device. And remove the ahci.device, if needed too.
If any of these edits get you booted. You can change grub to make them a part of your regular start-up.
I've managed to get recent Aros versions to boot on all my machines. But some I do not use because of constant Sfs drive errors. So not just frustrating for a new user.
Anyway, hope this helps.
Remove any unneeded Usb items before booting. When the grub menu appears, try a Vesa boot, and edit your choice to read ata=nodma. You might also edit the ata.device, to /Devs/Alt/ata.device. And remove the ahci.device, if needed too.
If any of these edits get you booted. You can change grub to make them a part of your regular start-up.
I've managed to get recent Aros versions to boot on all my machines. But some I do not use because of constant Sfs drive errors. So not just frustrating for a new user.
Anyway, hope this helps.
amigamiaAdminAfter a long time, I decided to bring back to life a broken laptop to try AROS on it. It is a Toshiba Satellite Pro 6100 with a Pentium 4 M, 512MB RAM, 40GB HDD, Toshiba Yamaha sound card (AC97 Compatible) and nVidia Gforce Video Go with 32MB VRAM.
Has SD-Card reader and a wireless card as well. Neat little machine for its time. Obsolete by today standards however. So I tried to install Amithlon and the install went fine but still battling with the drivers etc. (WIP here). I then created another partition and installed AmiPUP 1.1 and that went well. All works with the exception of the wireless card, which is 802.11b and doesn't support WPA2 (oh well, will use the ethernet cable I guess). I then tried to install Icaros 2.0.1 and there I felt like throwing the Icaros DVD out the window. Long story short, I could not install it no matter what I tried. The strange thing is that every time I booted from the DVD, it gave a totally different error or just a black screen. I thought maybe the DVD is bad? I tested it on VMWare Player and it booted fine as well as the install. I thought, maybe my laptop doesn't support AROS? I had the latest Aspire OS CD laying around and decided to try it. Booted right in the OS and it installed with no errors whatsoever. It now boots no problem into AspireOS.
I see that many other peeps are having problems with the new ABIv0. Looks like it is still very buggy and not a mature product. However, without trying it on so many different platforms, developers wouldn't know what works and what not but I have to say, it is really frustrating from the end user point of view and very discouraging for a first timer.
Has SD-Card reader and a wireless card as well. Neat little machine for its time. Obsolete by today standards however. So I tried to install Amithlon and the install went fine but still battling with the drivers etc. (WIP here). I then created another partition and installed AmiPUP 1.1 and that went well. All works with the exception of the wireless card, which is 802.11b and doesn't support WPA2 (oh well, will use the ethernet cable I guess). I then tried to install Icaros 2.0.1 and there I felt like throwing the Icaros DVD out the window. Long story short, I could not install it no matter what I tried. The strange thing is that every time I booted from the DVD, it gave a totally different error or just a black screen. I thought maybe the DVD is bad? I tested it on VMWare Player and it booted fine as well as the install. I thought, maybe my laptop doesn't support AROS? I had the latest Aspire OS CD laying around and decided to try it. Booted right in the OS and it installed with no errors whatsoever. It now boots no problem into AspireOS.
I see that many other peeps are having problems with the new ABIv0. Looks like it is still very buggy and not a mature product. However, without trying it on so many different platforms, developers wouldn't know what works and what not but I have to say, it is really frustrating from the end user point of view and very discouraging for a first timer.
BSziliSoftware DevQuote
amigamia wrote:
Well you know..:P For when you install Icaros 2.0 B)
Don't push your luck :D
xboxownJunior Member
Posted 9 years agoQuote
amigamia wrote:
Well you know..:P For when you install Icaros 2.0 B)
AH! YES! That! * looks at icaros 2.0 with disdain * :o
amigamiaAdminWell you know..:P For when you install Icaros 2.0 B)
xboxownJunior Member
Posted 9 years agoQuote
amigamia wrote:
Thanks for sharing. You can upload screenshots of errors and/or problems so other members can help you troubleshoot better. An image can say more than words sometimes.
* rubs the back of his head * Errors? What errors? :)
amigamiaAdminThanks for sharing. You can upload screenshots of errors and/or problems so other members can help you troubleshoot better. An image can say more than words sometimes.
xboxownJunior Member
Posted 9 years agoDone!
amigamiaAdminQuote
xboxown wrote:
Quote
amigamia wrote:
..And if you get a chance, please take some pictures of your running setup and share with us. You can upload them under: Navigation menu> Submit Photo. Be sure to change the album to be: "User Images" :)
You mean you want me to send you screenshot of my current icaro setup as it is running now?
That's correct :)
xboxownJunior Member
Posted 9 years agoQuote
amigamia wrote:
..And if you get a chance, please take some pictures of your running setup and share with us. You can upload them under: Navigation menu> Submit Photo. Be sure to change the album to be: "User Images" :)
You mean you want me to send you screenshot of my current icaro setup as it is running now?
amigamiaAdmin..And if you get a chance, please take some pictures of your running setup and share with us. You can upload them under: Navigation menu> Submit Photo. Be sure to change the album to be: "User Images" :)
cavemannSoftware Dev
Posted 9 years agoFormating a drive does not cause any wear to the drive, unless it should be replaced anyway. So I never worry about damaging a drive when I format it. Just be certain not to format an important partition by mistake ;)
Many of the devs run AROS hosted on another platform. So it's not a simple matter for them to fix complications on native hardware. But hopefully they will get to the bottom of these problems soon.
Also, as you may have already discovered, the software for AROS is not always backwards compatible. Many updates will only work with newer AROS versions. As time goes on, fewer people use the older distros.
Nice to hear that you have got things running well again :)
Many of the devs run AROS hosted on another platform. So it's not a simple matter for them to fix complications on native hardware. But hopefully they will get to the bottom of these problems soon.
Also, as you may have already discovered, the software for AROS is not always backwards compatible. Many updates will only work with newer AROS versions. As time goes on, fewer people use the older distros.
Nice to hear that you have got things running well again :)
xboxownJunior Member
Posted 9 years agoI am not using icaros 2.0 ever. To me right now icaros 2.0 does not exist (in my mind). I am sticking with 1.5.x and till now I enjoy it without any problems or issues. I will only install 2.0.1 when I get a confirmation from the majority of the community it is OK to use it, there is no problem.
I am terrified by the amount of time formatting, installing, formatting that I will damage the hard drive to get to install icaros 2.0 to work and it still didn't work. Right now, everything is stable and I am sticking with the version I have.
I am terrified by the amount of time formatting, installing, formatting that I will damage the hard drive to get to install icaros 2.0 to work and it still didn't work. Right now, everything is stable and I am sticking with the version I have.
BSziliSoftware DevQuote
paolone wrote:
Haven't you thought your installation media is simply faulty? Since release 2.0 gave you all those issue, please wait for 2.0.1 installation file and download the whole ISO again, then burn it to a DVD or create a installation pendrive following the user manual. If you're burning to a DVD, please use a blank (new) optical media and write it a 1x or 2x max speed. This will dramatically reduce chances to burn a faulty installation media.
I also hope you didn't try to install Icaros 2.0 over a 1.5 installation WITHOUT formatting and WITHOUT cleaning the drive, since it would easily lead to filesystem corruption in no time. The correct update path is 1) backup personal data, 2) clean drive from current AROS partitions, 3) re-do AROS partition and install. Using old apps with new system files is also heavily discouraged, too.
I doubt his problems have anything to do with the installation media. This is file system corruption, could be caused by anything in the I/O chain. I remember having similar problems when the kernel was upgraded the first time.
paoloneDistro Maintainer
Posted 9 years agoQuote
However, there is one feature I really am dying for icaros 2.0.0 and above.
Ability to close halted program by press ctrl-alt-del and end tasking frozen program. Ability to close window games my pressing alt-f4 and ability to switch between windows using alt-tab.
That makes using icaros even way more enjoyable.
All features you're requiring are already available in Icaros 2.0. Please read Icaros documentation for the correct key sequences, though.
lAros + Esc -> should open Scout in a private screen. Just select the offending task and remove it.
Esc -> generally closes the current program
Alt+Tab -> move to next window
lAros + Tab -> mote to next screen
paoloneDistro Maintainer
Posted 9 years agoQuote
xboxown wrote:
Icaros 2.0 is simply unusable, too buggy, non functional operating system. I compare icaros 2.0 with windows ME. One day it works the other day it fails. I am forced everytime to format and format install and install and then format and format..one second it works other second it fails. But either way no internet connection what so ever. Yesterday was my final draw in attempts to installing it and even the files in the setup installation is corrupted and it corrupts the sectors in my HD. And the draw was fulfilled...it broke again so I formatted my laptop for the final time and installed icaros 1.5.2 back again and now my system runs well. I am even posting this here post using icaros 1.5.2 without any problem.
Haven't you thought your installation media is simply faulty? Since release 2.0 gave you all those issue, please wait for 2.0.1 installation file and download the whole ISO again, then burn it to a DVD or create a installation pendrive following the user manual. If you're burning to a DVD, please use a blank (new) optical media and write it a 1x or 2x max speed. This will dramatically reduce chances to burn a faulty installation media.
I also hope you didn't try to install Icaros 2.0 over a 1.5 installation WITHOUT formatting and WITHOUT cleaning the drive, since it would easily lead to filesystem corruption in no time. The correct update path is 1) backup personal data, 2) clean drive from current AROS partitions, 3) re-do AROS partition and install. Using old apps with new system files is also heavily discouraged, too.
magoriumSoftware Dev
Posted 9 years agoQuote
Thank you so much for the positive reply. I purchased an entire laptop just to run ICAROS didn't I?
You did indeed. The more reason for us to be a bit embarrassed for things not working correctly on the first new release. Albeit i was only beta-tester...
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In fact I already have a very good laptop with 17" monitor running windows 8...technically speaking I did not need another laptop...but I bought it still to run ICAROS on real machine instead of virtual software. So yes, I bought it...I am going to use it. If it means icaros 1.5.2 until a new version of icaros 2.0 come out then so be it.
In that case, i wish you the best of experience with that.
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But even if icaros 2.0.1 comes out or whatever version I will not use it until I get a confirmation from the entire community 1st that it is a usable and worth upgrading from 1.5.1. I am not repeating the same mistake twice.
Hehe... just as long as you realize that when everbody chose to do so, we would have a problem with all people waiting for others to be the first sheep ;)
However, there is one feature I really am dying for icaros 2.0.0 and above.
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Ability to close halted program by press ctrl-alt-del and end tasking frozen program.
As expressed by cavemann, that key combination was already taken.
Hopefully, you are aware that you can kill a task with Scout.
Theoretically speaking, if there would be commodity for that then you could freely assign the key-combination. But... killing a task is not really recommended as it renders the AROS system instable, it would be best to do a reset. Other than that i understand that request :)
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Ability to close window games my pressing alt-f4
That is sooo windows that i won't even consider it ;-p
Some games however are ported and use exactly that key-combination to close the window. Under AROS it is custom to use the Right-AROS-K key to kill a task/window or the escape key as cavemann expressed.
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and ability to switch between windows using alt-tab.
Kalamatee got an amazing alt-tabber which shows a popup like windows which shows the contents of the window (or was it screen, i can;t seem to remember exactly) to switch with alt-tab. Unfortunately it's abiv1 only, and am even not sure it was released into public.
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That makes using icaros even way more enjoyable.
There are more features that AROS could use. They usually come to mind using AROS for a longer period of time. If something pops up then please do not hesitate to mention them, or make a wish-list.
F.e. i personally would love to see the tools-menu implemented/supported, e.g. for a feature we used to know as toolsdaemon on classic.
Once in a while an idea is picked-up and implemented. But if you would do so publicly, please try to avoid too much windowzz alike features as that sometimes seems to fire-up some heated discussions.
Even though using older icaros for now, please enjoy !
cavemannSoftware Dev
Posted 9 years agoQuote
Ability to close halted program by press ctrl-alt-del and end tasking frozen program. Ability to close window games my pressing alt-f4 and ability to switch between windows using alt-tab.
Aros reboots with Ctrl-alt-del, so that combination has already been assigned. There is also Ctrl-Aros-Aros (hehe) for a warm reboot which is faster (works on some machines).
Wanderer directory windows and some games can be closed the the escape key. To cycle windows you can use the Alt-tab combination that the FKey commodity already uses. You can also cycle screens with FKey, very handy. If it's not already setup, it's easy to configure yourself.
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