Questions about usage of AROS: AROS FORUMS

1 user reacted to this post

@AMIGASYSTEM - Khadas is your choice, in any case on AROS One can be installed minimal, just disable extras from from InstallAROS, then delete Tools folder and unnecessary icons from Amistart !

Since many people like the basic system, I will spend less time to update and improve AROS One !

It might be better to have a basic installation of AROS One then place an Extras Archive on your site for download for those who want more. I installed AROS One x86 v1.9 and it took about 45 minutes to copy all the extras to the hard disk. If a new user just wants to try it then 45 minutes is a lot of time to spend installing extra software.

Even Icaros when it was maintained had both a Lite Version as well as a Full Version.

AMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer

Posted 2 months ago

#23

miker you probably used a DVD, all OS now synstall from a Pendrive, with a Pendrive AROS One installs 5/8 minutes depending on PC power, otherwise even less Time.

Even on VMware and VirtualBox AROS One 2.4 installs 5/8, even less if you use a modern perfomant PC

Many "new users" when they try an empty Distribution with no productive applications and no configurationsi trash it, this is one of the reasons for the lack of diffusion.

Unfortunately AROS users like Amiga users are tied to old systems, and do not like modernity, the same thing happened to me with AfA One, where people preferred OS 3.1, so at this point is it worth spending so much time ?

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KhadasJunior Member

Posted 2 months ago

#24

AMIGASYSTEM

@AMIGASYSTEM - Khadas is your choice, in any case on AROS One can be installed minimal, just disable extras from from InstallAROS, then delete Tools folder and unnecessary icons from Amistart !

Since many people like the basic system, I will spend less time to update and improve AROS One !

My intention was not to discourage you or anything! Sorry if it sounded like that. I love seeing alternative OSes having a lot of development. I think the fact that some people give you their opinion means that the community uses or cares about your distro

In my case, I want some of the extras, but not everything, so selecting to install extras will install more than what I need, so it is a situation of "everything or nothing".

Also, the idea of downloading first the base system and then another ISO with additional stuff might not be such a great idea. In my case, I am totally new to AROS and never used an Amiga, so I don't know how I should properly "install" the contents of that additional ISO.

So the way Icaros does, I think it is more elegant and user friendly.

AMIGASYSTEM

Many "new users" when they try an empty Distribution with no productive applications and no configurationsi trash it, this is one of the reasons for the lack of diffusion.

I think it is a matter of how easy it is to start using the computer for basic tasks after the first installation. AROS base system is too barebones for the average enduser.
I took a loot at AROS base system and it doesn't even come with tar/lha/zip/7zip/rar software, so even if I download something from OWB I cannot uncompress it, so I need to go back to Windows, download from there, uncompress and then back to AROS.

At the top of the downloads page in AROS website, there is a note that says: "If you are a user wanting to try AROS, please use the links in the Distributions section to download a fully-featured AROS distribution. The nightly builds you will find at the bottom of the page are only meant for developers and testers. The nightly builds are not configured to be easily used, are not always stable, and they are missing most of the applications essential to a regular user experience."

I would change it to something like "The Nightly builds available here do not contain any software, configuration files or supporting libraries. This base system cannot be easily used, so we recommend to use instead any of the distributions listed in this page".

AMIGASYSTEM

Unfortunately AROS users like Amiga users are tied to old systems, and do not like modernity, the same thing happened to me with AfA One, where people preferred OS 3.1, so at this point is it worth spending so much time ?

There are young people who like alternative OSes and vintage hardware, but they don't want to buy an Amiga. I am not tied to old hardware. My main PC is a Core i3 with a modern nvidia card, and AROS works fine, so there is no need to be tied to an early 2000s laptop to make it work.

I think it is worth the time.

Jeff1138Junior Member

Posted 2 months ago

#25

Hi,

I prefer choice, I nearly always download AROS One as I like a preconfigured OS. So please continue

I can understand that others like a minimalist approach and build it up in their preference/style.
Which is where tiny aros / icaros lite steps in.

I suspect that doing any distro is time consuming and the maintainers do not get thanked enough for their efforts

Icaros approach still targets a huge sway of software than than individual ones. We have no central depositry that allows individual software other than aros-archives which you extract where you like and setup yourself usually. Not sure we have anyone wanting to take that huge task on though and would it be needed?

Interesting discussion and look at others needs/wants though

magorium

deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 2 months ago

#26

@Khadas
There are young people who like alternative OSes and vintage hardware, but they don't want to buy an Amiga. I am not tied to old hardware.

If you know where to find them, please spread word of AROS.

KhadasJunior Member

Posted 2 months ago

#27

Jeff1138 wrote:

[...]

Icaros approach still targets a huge sway of software than than individual ones. We have no central depositry that allows individual software other than aros-archives which you extract where you like and setup yourself usually. Not sure we have anyone wanting to take that huge task on though and would it be needed?

Interesting discussion and look at others needs/wants though

The AROS Archives offers a nicely formatted TXT file with all the files available:
http://archives.aros-exec.org/share/FULLINDEX.readme

And all the recent additions:
http://archives.aros-exec.org/share/RECENT.readme

Parsing that file and creating a simple equivalent to apt-get wouldn't be difficult. Only challenging part would be to autodownload required libs for each software since there is no information in that TXT file about them.
Showing the README file right before downloading/installing could help mitigate that problem. Something like Synaptic for Debian, but more simple and primitive.

I don't know if AmiNet offers something similar, but it could be possible to parse the HTML output of a search query like the next:

http://aros.aminet.net/search?name=.

@deadwood -
Khadas wrote:
@Khadas
There are young people who like alternative OSes and vintage hardware, but they don't want to buy an Amiga. I am not tied to old hardware.

If you know where to find them, please spread word of AROS.

It depends what you mean with "young", but around 25 to 30 years old people sometimes can be seen once in a while in youtube or around internet.

Also might worth promoting things in

gemini://bbs.geminispace.org
and/or
gemini://station.martinrue.com

There is a fairly amount of movement, hobbyist and tech savvy people in either of these and all over gemini.

Edited by Khadas on 06-03-2024 03:33, 2 months ago

AMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer

Posted 2 months ago

#28

1 user reacted to this post

Also, the idea of downloading first the base system and then another ISO with additional stuff might not be such a great idea. In my case, I am totally new to AROS and never used an Amiga, so I don't know how I should properly "install" the contents of that additional ISO.
.

As already mentioned, AROS is not Windows and it is not Linux and it is not a MAC, AROS is a "Portable" OS, installers are not necessary, although they can be created. It is difficult to find a program that provides an installer, this is because AROS is a "simple" system, where every file is in its right place.

When you download an ISO or an archive, installing is super simple, just copy the files into their respective system folders, you don't have to do anything else,

Also, if you want to streamline a system, you don't have to worry about creating slowdowns, if you need to delete third-party software or that you don't need, you just delete everything, the only caveat is to make sure there is no "Assign" to that folder ....

The Assign command on Amiga/AROS is very important because it serves the system to figure out where data is installed, and more importantly it does something no other OS in the world does, i give you an example !!!!

If for some reason you choose to change the name of a volume, for example call it "PIPPO" instead of "AROS" many configurations pointing to the volume "AROS" will not work. Well on AROS if you don't want to rename the volume you just add in the user-startup or startup-sequence Assign PIPPO: AROS:, Assign can also be used for folders.

Of course on AROS One, among many configurations, the volume name can be changed, without the need to worry about the paths saved in the configurations, this is because in all saves the volume name is "SYS", let's say universal volume name !

If you want to find out how many assigns there are in the system just type from a Shell "Assign", if instead you want to see the contents of the Assigned volumes, just go to Dopus4 and click on the button "Device"

Dopus4 is and has been fundamental on AMIGA/AROS systems, imitated on all OS, it is a filemanager where every type of file is recognized, so you can see texts, edit them, listen to music see videos, unzip any archive (ZIP, RAR, LHA, LZX, BZ2, RAF, TGZ and many others), all this on a basic system does not exist, basic Dous4 does not recognize almost anything !

This is one of the hundreds of configurations I have created, the same functions as Dopus4 you will find on Wanderer, again all file types are recognized, and each of the files is assigned the correct icon and tool and the correct stack, even this you will not find on a basic system.

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retrofaza

deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 2 months ago

#29

2 users reacted to this post

@AMIGASYSTEM
because AROS is a "simple" system, where every file is in its right place.

I think this statement oversimplies the problem. A person coming outside of Amiga-land will not not know what "right place" is and having experience with installers/packages from mainstream platforms, questions on how to do things are nothing we should be surprised. I had the same questions and problems when I first came to AROS.

@Khadas

Here is the simplest quide I can come up with for general new user:

After installing AROS keep the directories you see on AROS disk unchanged. Create a directory (let's call it Home or MyDocuments). It will be the place where you place additional software and will keep your files. After downloading an archive from AROS Archives unpack it into this directory. 99% of cases, after unpacking the software is ready to use, there is no need for additional actions. If when starting software complains about missing libraries, download the library and place it into AROS:Libs.

That should get you started and allow to learn system specifics. As with any system, there are specific things to know (like the assigns that @AMIGASYSTEM described)

Additional comment on the Archives: there is an application called AAEDT that allows downloading packages from the archive. It's similar to what you described in your post.

aha, retrofaza

OlafSchJunior Member

Posted 2 months ago

#30

2 users reacted to this post

@AMIGASYSTEM - miker you probably used a DVD, all OS now synstall from a Pendrive, with a Pendrive AROS One installs 5/8 minutes depending on PC power, otherwise even less Time.

Even on VMware and VirtualBox AROS One 2.4 installs 5/8, even less if you use a modern perfomant PC

Many "new users" when they try an empty Distribution with no productive applications and no configurationsi trash it, this is one of the reasons for the lack of diffusion.

Unfortunately AROS users like Amiga users are tied to old systems, and do not like modernity, the same thing happened to me with AfA One, where people preferred OS 3.1, so at this point is it worth spending so much time ?

The question is for whom you doi it. I f.e. do it primarly for myself. My own distributions was critisized from others because of being bloated or someone moaned about icons. But that is not really my problem. I like it for what it is for, it is in my view not bloated but complete and icons are not perfect but OK. If someone else not likes it he or she not needs to use it.

I work on it when I have new ideas and/or something better is there regarding aros base system on 68k ,f.e. when Deadwood updates roms witj 68k fixes or Arexx works *hint* :-)

I do not need because of others expect it or someone else waits for it. I do not get paid for it.

You react sometimes too thin-skinned if someone else says something or critisize what you do. Who cares? And yes majority of current amiga users are only interested in Amigaos 3.X. But again who cares. Do you do it for personal fun or for others? I do it only for myself

Edited by OlafSch on 06-03-2024 10:11, 2 months ago

deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 2 months ago

#31

OlafSch wrote:

@OlafSch
I work on it when I have new ideas and/or something better is there regarding aros base system on 68k ,f.e. when Deadwood updates roms witj 68k fixes or Arexx works *hint* :-)

*cough* *cough*

https://arosworld.org/infusions/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1145&rowstart=0#post_3143

Edited by deadwood on 06-03-2024 10:22, 2 months ago

OlafSch, miker1264

OlafSchJunior Member

Posted 2 months ago

#32

@deadwood -
OlafSch wrote:
@OlafSch
I work on it when I have new ideas and/or something better is there regarding aros base system on 68k ,f.e. when Deadwood updates roms witj 68k fixes or Arexx works *hint* :-)

*cough* *cough*

https://arosworld.org/infusions/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1145&rowstart=0#post_3143

thanks I look at it

AMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer

Posted 2 months ago

#33

OlafSch, I did not create AROS One for me, but for all AROS users, initially I had my AROS based on AspireOS and IcarOS, then I decided to create my own Distribution trying to improve or add something of my own.

I don't get angry because they prefer a Build Base, I get angry because people judge without having first tried and seen what is inside a Distribution, also I get angry because they don't listen to the advice of those who have more eseperience.

When you are not experienced reinventing the wheel gets you nowhere, instead you should start from a base and continue to develop, only in this way do you create, otherwise you decline.

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miker1264Software Dev

Posted 2 months ago

#34

AMIGASYSTEM

You're doing a fine job! Don't let what others prefer guide you in preparing your distributions. We all have different opinions.

I actually liked the AfA One distribution and AROS One 68k looked nice with the old icons. But that's just my opinion.

I really do like the completeness of AROS One x86 especially when it comes to music and videos as well as all the many customizations. The assortment of software is also quite nice!

OlafSchJunior Member

Posted 2 months ago

#35

1 user reacted to this post

@deadwood -
OlafSch wrote:
@OlafSch
I work on it when I have new ideas and/or something better is there regarding aros base system on 68k ,f.e. when Deadwood updates roms witj 68k fixes or Arexx works *hint* :-)

*cough* *cough*

https://arosworld.org/infusions/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1145&rowstart=0#post_3143

thanks works now. I still had a strange problem with rexxmast not working. I tested and finally realized that the newer version of magellan caused it, the older original version works

only amiga makes it possible

BTW thank you

Edited by OlafSch on 06-03-2024 16:54, 2 months ago

miker1264

deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 2 months ago

#36

Glad it worked. Now lets get back to helping new users

Amiwell79Distro Maintainer

Posted 2 months ago

#37

a lot of software in icaros is obsolete it doesn't take long to delete what you don't need on Tiny Aros

Edited by Amiwell79 on 06-03-2024 18:31, 2 months ago

KhadasJunior Member

Posted 2 months ago

#38

@AMIGASYSTEM - OlafSch, I did not create AROS One for me, but for all AROS users, initially I had my AROS based on AspireOS and IcarOS, then I decided to create my own Distribution trying to improve or add something of my own.

And it is great that people create things for others.

I don't get angry because they prefer a Build Base, I get angry because people judge without having first tried and seen what is inside a Distribution, also I get angry because they don't listen to the advice of those who have more eseperience.

When you are not experienced reinventing the wheel gets you nowhere, instead you should start from a base and continue to develop, only in this way do you create, otherwise you decline.

If you are talking about me, I didn't judge anything.
I only said that Aros One comes with a lot of 3rd party software. In my case, I don't need the vast majority of these, and is likely other users will be in the same situation, but there is no option to choose which individual software to install, so in the end I will have to investing a lot of time installing everything, plus more time to delete the things that I don't need, hence why I suggested an approach similar to Icaros.

Also, even when some people said "just delete the things you don't need", but as a totally new user of AROS and Amiga coming from Linux/Win background it is difficult to assess what is ok to delete and what is not. The three main OSes (Mac, Win, Linux) discourage a "manual" deletion of programs, rather use proper uninstalling methods to avoid deleting things you are not supposed to, so I cannot know if deleting "pixman.library" that comes already with Icaros and Aros One will affect something else in the system.

[...]

Now lets get back to helping new users

I think it is too late for that.

Edited by Khadas on 06-03-2024 21:29, 2 months ago

deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 2 months ago

#39

@Khadas -

deadwood wrote:
[...]

Now lets get back to helping new users

I think it is too late for that.

Sorry, what do you mean by that?

AMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer

Posted 2 months ago

#40