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Prototype of AROS ABIv0 emulator for 64-bit AROS

Last updated on 5 days ago
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 5 days ago
Hi G-linx,

There were only minor changes in final prototype version so you can consider version from #62 as up to date.
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G-linxNewbie
Posted 5 days ago
Awesome Deadwood! Smile
..Is the final prototype download link the same as in post #62?
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 7 days ago
Great work as always!
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 8 days ago
And here comes the final update:

1) Test a recent program written in C using new C library (Calculator) [DONE]
2) Test an old, 3rd party program written in C using old C library (ZuneARC) [DONE]
3) Test program written in Hollywood (HFinder) [DONE]
4) Test program written in Pascal (MCAmiga) [DONE]
5) Test emulator under native AROS x86_64 and confirm it can work with native kernel [DONE]
6) Test emulator under AxRuntime and confirm ABIv0 programs can be run directly on Linux/Windows [DONE]

As you can see on the screen shot, ABIv0 program is running on the emulator which is running on AxRuntime making the ABIv0 program run directly on Linux (and using WSL also on Windows).

To summarize the prototype:

I believe it will be feasible to develop the emulator with limited cost, although higher than I initially expected. The emulation interface is quite narrow (exec, dos, graphics, cybergraphics, intuition) while re-using other 32-bit libraries, which is a good thing from point of view of how much it will cost to develop the emulator. Eventually I believe the decision whether to port & re-compile the application to 64-bit or to upgrade the emulator to support it will have to be made case-by-case looking simply at what is less costly (=time consuming). The role of the emulator is to form a temporary bridge to allow the migration. With time emulator should be used less and less with more and more applications being native 64-bit.
retrofaza, ntromans, Argo, pixie, mmartinka, G-linx
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 12 days ago
Thanks for the tests. Like
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 12 days ago
On VMware I installed emulator-prototype-20240604 with the graphics of AROS One, then did some tests with some Applications like ZuneARC, ZuneCalc and ZuneHexEditor, on the latter you can't open the request file, aoa is the Filemanager of My Commander.

I also tried running Dopus4 but it requests the asyncio.library, the 32Bit version now of course cannot recognise it.
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 12 days ago
I'll try it now, maybe even create my own version of AROS One, so I can test all the software included!
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 13 days ago
Hi All,

Another update on the prototype and this some thing to play with!

1) Test a recent program written in C using new C library (Calculator) [DONE]
2) Test an old, 3rd party program written in C using old C library (ZuneARC) [DONE]
3) Test program written in Hollywood (HFinder) [DONE]
4) Test program written in Pascal (MCAmiga) [DONE]
5) Test emulator under native AROS x86_64 and confirm it can work with native kernel [DONE]
6) Test emulator under AxRuntime and confirm ABIv0 programs can be run directly on Linux/Windows

As you can see, steps 4 and 5 are now done.

Below you can find video showing current state of emulator as well as a demo ISO if you are interested in trying it out. Please be sure to read the README present on the ISO. Please keep in mind that this is still prototype stage - at this point there will be many things broken and not working. You can post results of you tests in this thread, but resolution of any reported problems will happen only once I start developing a more stable version (which will not be this year).

https://axrt.org/development/emulator-prototype-20240604-aros-pc-x86_64.iso.zip

ntromans, retrofaza, mmartinka, G-linx
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OlafSchMember
Posted 17 days ago
if you have problems to find out what application expects he could certainly answer that
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 17 days ago
.
Edited by deadwood on 30-05-2024 12:34, 17 days ago
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 17 days ago
You mean to the developer of Hollywood to get version for 64-bit AROS?
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OlafSchMember
Posted 17 days ago
Regarding Hollywood, why do you not directly talk to the developer?
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 17 days ago
Hi All,

I'm happy to report that I got a Hollywood application up and running. Check the attached video and/or screen shot.

There are a number of missing functions which I needed to implement as well as it turned out that HFinder needed working datatypes - so they also have been added to the emulation. In general, work in now progressing slower and with applications without sources, I need to dive directly into assembler to understand what application is doing and what it expects to get from operating system. However these kind of applications, which can't be re-compiled, are probably going to be the main use cases for the emulator.

We are now half-way with emulator prototype. As a reminder, here is test plan that will be execute before final decision on emulator will be taken:

1) Test a recent program written in C using new C library (Calculator) [DONE]
2) Test an old, 3rd party program written in C using old C library (ZuneARC) [DONE]
3) Test program written in Hollywood (HFinder) [DONE]
4) Test program written in Pascal
5) Test emulator under native AROS x86_64 and confirm it can work with native kernel
6) Test emulator under AxRuntime and confirm ABIv0 programs can be run directly on Linux/Windows

Emulator sources are available here: https://github.com/deadwood2/AROS/tree/AoA/workbench/tools/AoA

If you are a developer and you would be interested in contributing to emulator in future, please send me an email or PM on the forums.
OlafSch, retrofaza, mmartinka
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Amiwell79Distro Maintainer
Posted 27 days ago
Great DeadwoodSmile
mattson62mattson62Junior Member
Posted 27 days ago
@ deadwood Awesome news what may seem a small step is a big awesome step! thanks for all you do!
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 27 days ago
Already a good step forward, congratulations and thank you for the great work you are doing!
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 27 days ago
An update from me on the emulator.

I'm currently working on getting a test Hollywood application (HFinder) to run through the emulator. At this point I'm able to start it and exit it without a crash. UI is still not rendering correctly (see screenshot) and mouse/keyboard does not seem to be working yet. More work is needed and it's a bit time consuming - as there are no sources available, I need to debug directly in assembler.
retrofaza, amigamia, G-linx, Amiwell79, mmartinka, Deremon
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 2 months ago

AMIGASYSTEM wrote:

@AMIGASYSTEM - deadwood I think is already a good step forward, we confidently wait for the first official release !


Thanks, but keep in mind that the goal of prototype is to prove that emulation is possible with limited amount of work rather then deliver a working solution.
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 2 months ago
deadwood I think is already a good step forward, we confidently wait for the first official release !
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 2 months ago
Hi All,

Over last week I've been able to successfully complete step of testing 32-bit ZuneARC. As you can see on attached video, it is possible to start it, select a zip file and decompress it. Unziping is done via 64-bit UnZip command which 32-bit ZuneARC calls. There are graphical artifacts and most needed functions is not fully implemeted, but what is there right now it good enough to move to next stage.

On a technical note, the greatest challenge so far was integrating BOOPSI gadgets. While MUI objects are fully on the 32-bit side and need a narrow interface into graphics.library and intuition.library, BOOPSI gadgets (as seen for example in ASL requester) are created on 32-bit side, but need close communication with login on 64-bit side in intuition to render and respond to user input. The implemented solution seems to be working but needs to be further extended to provide fully proper rendering.

Also you will notice lack of images on MUI buttons. This is due to fact that while the 32-bit datatypes.library is working, no 32-bit datatypes are actually loaded into it. This is problem with known solution, so it will be omitted for now.

As a reminder, here is test plan that will be execute before final decision on emulator will be taken:

1) Test a recent program written in C using new C library (Calculator) [DONE]
2) Test an old, 3rd party program written in C using old C library (ZuneARC) [DONE]
3) Test program written in Hollywood
4) Test program written in Pascal
5) Test emulator under native AROS x86_64 and confirm it can work with native kernel
6) Test emulator under AxRuntime and confirm ABIv0 programs can be run directly on Linux/Windows

Emulator sources are available here: https://github.com/deadwood2/AROS/tree/AoA/workbench/tools/AoA

If you are a developer and you would be interested in contributing to emulator in future, please send me an email or PM on the forums.
Edited by deadwood on 13-04-2024 03:40, 2 months ago
retrofaza, Argo, mmartinka, ntromans, G-linx
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Users who participated in discussion: magorium, aha, deadwood, AMIGASYSTEM, pixie, Amiwell79, G-linx, miker1264, OlafSch, mattson62
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