Prototype of AROS ABIv0 emulator for 64-bit AROS: AROS FORUMS

Prototype of AROS ABIv0 emulator for 64-bit AROS

Last updated on 25 days ago

deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 25 days ago

@AMIGASYSTEM - deadwood I think is already a good step forward, we confidently wait for the first official release !

Thanks, but keep in mind that the goal of prototype is to prove that emulation is possible with limited amount of work rather then deliver a working solution.

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AMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer

Posted 26 days ago

#19

deadwood I think is already a good step forward, we confidently wait for the first official release !

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deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 26 days ago

#18

Hi All,

Over last week I've been able to successfully complete step of testing 32-bit ZuneARC. As you can see on attached video, it is possible to start it, select a zip file and decompress it. Unziping is done via 64-bit UnZip command which 32-bit ZuneARC calls. There are graphical artifacts and most needed functions is not fully implemeted, but what is there right now it good enough to move to next stage.

On a technical note, the greatest challenge so far was integrating BOOPSI gadgets. While MUI objects are fully on the 32-bit side and need a narrow interface into graphics.library and intuition.library, BOOPSI gadgets (as seen for example in ASL requester) are created on 32-bit side, but need close communication with login on 64-bit side in intuition to render and respond to user input. The implemented solution seems to be working but needs to be further extended to provide fully proper rendering.

Also you will notice lack of images on MUI buttons. This is due to fact that while the 32-bit datatypes.library is working, no 32-bit datatypes are actually loaded into it. This is problem with known solution, so it will be omitted for now.

As a reminder, here is test plan that will be execute before final decision on emulator will be taken:

1) Test a recent program written in C using new C library (Calculator) [DONE]
2) Test an old, 3rd party program written in C using old C library (ZuneARC) [DONE]
3) Test program written in Hollywood
4) Test program written in Pascal
5) Test emulator under native AROS x86_64 and confirm it can work with native kernel
6) Test emulator under AxRuntime and confirm ABIv0 programs can be run directly on Linux/Windows

Emulator sources are available here: https://github.com/deadwood2/AROS/tree/AoA/workbench/tools/AoA

If you are a developer and you would be interested in contributing to emulator in future, please send me an email or PM on the forums.

Edited by deadwood on 13-04-2024 03:40, 26 days ago

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OlafSchJunior Member

Posted 1 month ago

#17

deadwood wrote:

@deadwood - @OlafSch

It's pretty much like @magorium described. See attached screen shot for MultiView running through AxRuntime and using datatypes to display picture.

One thing that is not yes implemented is passing arguments - so opening an image via double-click won't work yet .

Looks good. It would be fantastic if you could mix it like on Aros 68k mixing Aros and AmigaOS binaries. For example starting components with parameters, be it AxRuntime components (Aros) or real Linux components

In this example starting Multiview with path to picture as parameter

deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 1 month ago

#16

magorium wrote:

@magorium

The only thing that I can not seem to realize is AXRuntime. That really requires 2 different RTL's to be active at the same time for which FPC does not have provision (and I was already told it will not be accepted would it be added)

That should be ok - AxRuntime can run ABIv11 AROS executables, so as long as you can compiled Pascal source code to AROS executable, the program will also be available for Linux/Windows users.

deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 1 month ago

#15

@OlafSch

It's pretty much like @magorium described. See attached screen shot for MultiView running through AxRuntime and using datatypes to display picture.

One thing that is not yes implemented is passing arguments - so opening an image via double-click won't work yet .

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magoriumSoftware Dev

Posted 1 month ago

#14

OlafSch wrote:

you can develope a picture viewer, multiview as example, that accepts path to a picture as parameter and then shows it?

That question has many hidden subfeatures inside it. Could you elaborate ?

Know that it is already possible to show a picture using multiview using tooltypes, hence the question.

Quote

Second, how do you add or improve datatypes? Normally you copy a file in a directory.. How is it done in AxRuntime?

Exactly the same.

In principle: anything that goes for classic amigaos/AROS also works for AxRuntime. If it doesn't then it is worth considering a feature request but that is ofc if deadwood decides it would be beneficial to support such a feature or not. Perhaps better to compare it with hosted instead of native.

If AxRuntime does not support something in particular then it is possible to use host functionality in order to accomplish such task.

OlafSchJunior Member

Posted 1 month ago

#13

deadwood wrote:

@deadwood -
OlafSch wrote:
@OlafSch - Then datatypes. It is a cool concept in my view..

In what function do you see datatypes? They are already included in AxRuntime.

that might be enough. Two questions.... you can develope a picture viewer, multiview as example, that accepts path to a picture as parameter and then shows it? Second, how do you add or improve datatypes? Normally you copy a file in a directory.. How is it done in AxRuntime?

magoriumSoftware Dev

Posted 1 month ago

#12

deadwood wrote:

4) Test program written in Pascal

Note that I still have the intention to fork Free Pascal as soon as a new version emerges in order to add/implement the necessary changes to support 64-bit AROS.

So far I have not noticed any issues with Free Pascal compiled 64-bit AROS executables, it is just that the ruling dragons decided that they will not support AROS ABIv11 and seem to have a sweet-spot for ABIv1 (which does not work and will never work for Free Pascal with current imposed restrictions. But hey, what do I know

)

The only thing that I can not seem to realize is AXRuntime. That really requires 2 different RTL's to be active at the same time for which FPC does not have provision (and I was already told it will not be accepted would it be added)

Edited by magorium on 31-03-2024 04:22, 1 month ago

deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 1 month ago

#11

OlafSch wrote:

@OlafSch - Then datatypes. It is a cool concept in my view..

In what function do you see datatypes? They are already included in AxRuntime.

OlafSchJunior Member

Posted 1 month ago

#10

There are some components I would also like to see on a potential new linux environment. Diskimage device to f.e. mount adf. Then datatypes. It is a cool concept in my view. And Arexx ports. And of course a amiga desktop as base. I know and like both magellan and scalos. With both you can do similar things. What you prefer is a matter of taste. The basic difference, Magellan always was a solution on its own, whereas Scalos always obviously was designed as a workbench replacement. If possible both would be nice to have

AMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer

Posted 1 month ago

deadwood wrote:

@deadwood - Hello,

Emulator reached a point where it can successfully run ABIv0 calculator - check the attached video.

As you can see, the 32-bit calculator is integrated with other 64-bit programs so as a user you don't really know that you are running a 32-bit application. Prototype implementation of "proxy" graphics.library and intuition.library is proceeding and while there are some caveats around message passing, so far no blocker problem has been found.

I also defined a checklist of tests needed to be completed before a final decision on emulator can be made:

1) Test a recent program written in C using new C library (Calculator) [DONE]
2) Test an old, 3rd party program written in C using old C library (ZuneARC) [IN PROGRESS]
3) Test program written in Hollywood
4) Test program written in Pascal
5) Test emulator under AxRuntime and confirm ABIv0 programs can be run directly on Linux/Windows

Emulator sources are available here: https://github.com/deadwood2/AROS/tree/AoA/workbench/tools/AoA

If you are a developer and you would be interested in contributing to emulator in future, please send me an email or PM on the forums.

Thanks deadwood, you are great, I spread your post on the sites I frequent !

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deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 1 month ago

Hello,

Emulator reached a point where it can successfully run ABIv0 calculator - check the attached video.

As you can see, the 32-bit calculator is integrated with other 64-bit programs so as a user you don't really know that you are running a 32-bit application. Prototype implementation of "proxy" graphics.library and intuition.library is proceeding and while there are some caveats around message passing, so far no blocker problem has been found.

I also defined a checklist of tests needed to be completed before a final decision on emulator can be made:

1) Test a recent program written in C using new C library (Calculator) [DONE]
2) Test an old, 3rd party program written in C using old C library (ZuneARC) [IN PROGRESS]
3) Test program written in Hollywood
4) Test program written in Pascal
5) Test emulator under native AROS x86_64 and confirm it can work with native kernel
6) Test emulator under AxRuntime and confirm ABIv0 programs can be run directly on Linux/Windows

Emulator sources are available here: https://github.com/deadwood2/AROS/tree/AoA/workbench/tools/AoA

If you are a developer and you would be interested in contributing to emulator in future, please send me an email or PM on the forums.

Edited by deadwood on 30-03-2024 01:56, 1 month ago

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deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 1 month ago

Edited by deadwood on 28-03-2024 06:09, 1 month ago

AMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer

Posted 1 month ago

deadwood, about Dopus4, the 64Bit version did not work well, I hope the 32Bit version will work !

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deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 1 month ago

AMIGASYSTEM wrote:

@AMIGASYSTEM - Great work deadwood, will the 32Bit software in emulation keep its speed, or will it be slower ?

It will keep it's speed.

Amiwell79Distro Maintainer

Posted 1 month ago

Thank you

AMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer

Posted 1 month ago

Great work deadwood, will the 32Bit software in emulation keep its speed, or will it be slower ?

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deadwoodAROS Dev

Posted 1 month ago

Hi All,

The emulator reached today first major milestone. All 32-bit libraries needed to run ABIv0 Calculator are loaded and Calculator is now able to open it's window directly under 64-bit AROS. This is a native 64-bit AROS window so there should be full interaction between windows of programs running under emulation and native 64-bit programs. A user should not notice he is running a 32-bit program.

Some technical notes:
Loading libraries was problematic at first, but after adding some needed structure, they started loading mostly on their own, which was very positive as it means less work for me.

The part that I'm focusing now turned out however to be more complex and harder than I expected. The objective is now to implement "proxy" graphics.library and intuition.library that will take 32-bit programs calls and "forward" them to native 64-bit libraries, so that 32-bit programs render graphics and gadgets in integrated way.

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OlafSchJunior Member

Posted 2 months ago

I sent this message to GPSoft (DOpus(

years ago we got the permission and source code to use Magellan DOpus on Amiga. Thank you again for that. There is a recent development where I wanted to ask you if you are ok with it. On Aros Deadwood is mergin Linux and Aros so that Aros software could be compiled to real linux binaries and run on Linux as Linux apps and sources be a mixture between aros and linux. All 64bit and even all 32bit aros binaries shall run on linux too without recompiling . It is in my view a real cool and promising project.

If you are interested in further informations:

https://www.axrt....

and https://www.arosw.../index.php

here expecially discussion about "Prototype...". Here people asked if it would be possible to get magellan desktop, something I would like too because I love it because of the flexibility. But I wanted to ask you before it is ok for you if the (old amiga based) magellan would run on linux.

Answer:
Yes that’s ok to use this on Linux. You just need to ensure that there’s an aknowledgement of the orioginal developers and reference to our current web site – GPSoft.com.au

So they are ok with it

Edited by OlafSch on 23-03-2024 04:45, 2 months ago

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retrofaza, Amiwell79, pixie, aha, mattson62, Argo, deadwood, miker1264

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Users who participated in discussion: magorium, aha, deadwood, AMIGASYSTEM, pixie, Amiwell79, miker1264, OlafSch, mattson62